Difference between revisions of "User talk:Wekelwrady"

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Just discuss below.
Just discuss below.


===User's Stance: Uploading of non-watermarked images===
I would like to answer some questions regarding why I choose to upload other types of images instead of using Land Transport Guru's.


== Sengkang / Punggol LRT Route Map, Plaform Layout ==
My answer is simple. First of all, images with watermarks in the middle affect the overall aesthetics of the infobox. Secondly, exploring other image options out of the comfort zone is a good thing, and it captures the eyes of internet users in a more pleasant manner, rather than a heavily watermarked image. The images involved in Sgwiki's bus service pages are in Google Images right now as I speak.
Hi,
 
Lastly and most importantly, the goal in the manifest is to build a '''comparative''' platform.
 
I hope that more users are able to understand where I am coming from and able to assist in contributing more of your '''OWN''' images. It is really appreciated with gratitude.
 
===Clarification!===
My words seem to have been put out of context. I think I didn't make it clear what I meant by the watermarked images. What I was referring to was to address allegations that "sgwiki is plagarising LTG", which I think we should take a unique and exclusive step in the editorial direction of sgwiki. Presenting my own images is part of reducing that negative perception that readers initially had on the new bus service page rollout.
 
But please don't rush!! The content still has to come first, pictures come last!!
 
Secondly, I would like to point out self-sustainability for sgwiki as a goal, thus these images I uploaded are meant for sgwiki use, and meant to remove any layer of copyright issues that arise '''(TLDR: just use them directly for bus service pages)'''. Images that are already on model pages are not to be largely untouched as these are not a priority.
 
===User's Stance: Regarding recent Maintenance Work===
 
I would like to be realistic here. The reasons other transport pages have been successful have always been attributed to regular maintenance. Therefore, for an encyclopedia to be relevant, the '''MOST IMPORTANT CORE OF CONTENTS MUST BE THERE'''. I know that I am getting frustrated, but stacking incomplete work on top of incomplete work can stress out people. Checks and corrections are an important investment and can never be excluded. I hope relevant editors can understand why I need to emphasise this.
 
I am supposed to be helping out at the trains page, but if editors can be more attentive, I hope I can continue my supposed schedule at the trains page.
 
==Re: Alternate Travel Option Wording==
* NS11: 962 Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long walking distance to Blk 680.
 
>> The walking distance may be on par with Opp Admiralty Stn bus stop as one need to turn left twice to Admiralty Stn bus stop, turn left again and walk down, cross the overhead bridge and further walk to Opp Admiralty Stn, whereas the walking path to Blk 680 bus stop is straightforward & direct (turn right and walk to road, turn left again to bus stop).


I think for the loop service for Sengkang and Punggol I think we follow the geological map in Google Map / LTA Station map?
* NS12: 962->117/M 883/M Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long travelling journey to the station.


So for
>> What do you mean long travelling time? Alternatively how about 965->Darul Mosque->Overhead bridge->169/117/883 to Canberra, will it be faster?
* Sengkang
** SW4 - SW1 | STC | SE1 - SE3<br>SW5 - SW8 |    | SE5 - SE4
* Punggol
** PW4 - PW1 | PTC | PE7 - PE4<br>PW5 - PW7 |    | PE1 - PE3


I shift the Layout Template - UR to UL (This one my naming wrong), then UR2 to UR.
== RE: Alternate Travel Options==
Hi,


As for the Platform Layout, I trial it at Admiralty Station. Do take a look and let me know what need to improve. I not too sure if the escalator/stairs/lift should change to pictograms, this include the Faregates, Ticketing Machine and the Passenger Service Control.
Thanks for your progress. I had updated the Schematic route for Woodlands station, by including coloured lines at the bottom of the icon for quick reference on the icons group, so that it would be more easier to reference the icon-pairing when viewing 2 images side by side.


As for the Exit, I not to sure if we do a simplified drawing or use screenshot of a Map, instead of the table.
I will update the travelling time for TEL4 asap once I timed the whole trip from Woodlands North to Bayshore and analyze first as the current Opening House could not be fully gauge (as it was sector by sector) so actual dwell time may differ.


Do let me know if you have any suggestion.
Thanks and Regards


=== Re: ===
== Re: Disruption dropdown box idea ==
For the subsequent station on SKLRT & PGLRT, there is 2 takes.
Yes, is fine to do it, I not really sure what you meant by main page, perhaps you can trial first for it? The main page is not locked (I believe)
* Treat it as a normal route map, reached until Sengkang/Punggol as a single line and that's it.
* Follow the same as Sengkang/Punggol, but only keep the East/West Loop segment


I think this would also affect the layout for those stations on the BPLRT, especially for the BP7 - BP13 ones as they are in a loop.
As for the station layout map, I trying to figure out a way to translate 2D diagram to isometric view (Mathematics involved) for better clarity, so once that done I will slowly progressive roll out on most of the NSL and the eastern EWL. Didn't really have the accurate network layout for most station.


Noted on your Platform Layout takes. I will think of how I can improve it.
===Improvements to counting buses by op===
Automatic calculator that monitors the deployment table(?)


Ideally if we can implement something like this [https://www.skyscrapercity.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.skyscrapercity.com/attachments/20221208_123522-jpg.4264906/] would be better as it would fit in the concourse exit directory easily.
== Fixing 184 Weekday Last Bus timings ==


As for Alternate Travel Method for Locality Map, it would be a good idea, but there is lack of consistency between the various MRT operators, and also LRT stations. Furthermore, some online map services are not even accurate and differ from 1 another, with no clear indication of Bus Stop Numbers on their maps. Will consider/ponders more about it or if you had an alternative do let me know and let see how we can implement it out.
42119 - 23:39<br>
42089 - 23:40   42071 - 23:37<br>
42149 - 23:41<br>
12099 - 23:43      12091 - 23:34<br>
12089 - 23:28   12081 - 23:34<br>
12079 - 23:45   17111 - 23:32<br>
17229 - 23:45<br>


Thanks & Regards
== Re: Travel Time==
I had updated the new travel time to reflect Hume, Punggol Coast and Teck Lee Station.


Supernutorcrazy
For the new upgrade template on bus service page, yes is correct. There isn't any much changes to the new templates.
*Bus Fleet - <code><nowiki>{{Col|xxx}}</nowiki></code>
*Bus Fleet - <code><nowiki>{{Fleet|fleet=xxx|model=xxx}}</nowiki></code>
*Special Departure/SWT - <code><nowiki>{{Col/1|xxx}}</nowiki></code> ← This was used because it didn't use the same format due to vertical alignment issue
*First/Last Bus - <code><nowiki>{{Bus/FBLB}}</nowiki></code>
**<code><nowiki>wd=/fr=/sa=/su=</nowiki></code> → stands for no weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns
**<code><nowiki>fwd=/ffr=/fsa=/fsu=</nowiki></code> → first bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
**<code><nowiki>lwd=/lfr=/lsa=/lsu=</nowiki></code> → last bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
**order : weekdays →  saturdays → sundays → fridays


=== Re: ===
[[User:Supernutorcrazy|Supernutorcrazy]] ([[User talk:Supernutorcrazy|talk]]) 08:02, 8 March 2025 (+08)
1. Noted to keep to single line option to reach the end-terminus (CCK/Sengkang/Punggol).


2. Yes. The City Hall illustration is good, but there is no consistency, all station don't even have those. Outram Park transfer is a nightmare one, but it look way off/different. Also how can we implement it in sgWiki is another question.
==Re: Template standardisation==
Hi,


3. Agree with you. LTA do take a handsoff approached in terms of updating it. I once wrote to LTA regarding to put maps and Train Arrival Time on their myTransport.sg App, but their response is, they will not do it. So theoretically, their app is way worse than Google Map because they treat public transport into 3 category, bus, mrt/lrt and taxi, and not as 1 - point to point connectivity mode. It's a joke on how they always say with it. So getting those map updated will take eternalty unless the station will get a new line serving it.
I had trial on [[Template:BS65009]] regarding the feedbacks, and special thanks to Shaun for highlighting the problem. You can refer to


Yes. Making a map for this wiki should be doable. Need to find way on how to implement it. sgWiki doesn't allow svg format, so image wise only png would be better, and it hard to make/update changes in the future if they is a change in the future. HTML is box-like and hard to do a diagonally layout so the map will look weird. For the details - I was thinking about the following would be better so that at least there is a visual cue:
*[[Punggol station]]
* Bus Stop (with 5-digit numbers only, without name)
*[[Punggol LRT Bridging Service]]
* Road Layout (with Road Name)
*[[Bus Service 34]]
* Exit Markers (Numbers / Alphabets)
*[[Bus Service 384]]
* Visual Markers such as Shopping Centre / Well-known landmarks


But this would be very exhausting and we need to plan well before making such a map. As of now, the station layout and the exit location like the City Hall diagram seems possible to implement first. By the way, there is no limit on Wiki, just that the page can get too long and it hard for the user to scroll that much if viewing on mobile phone. :)
For the effect.


=== RE: ===
Key notes:
First, for the line diagram, lets keep it to as of now. 1 station code (the line itself, except Tanah Merah and Pasir Ris in the future). I had a nightmare calibrating the lines to feature the CG for Tanah Merah. I had tried to implement the interchanges, but it will get messier with diff format in terms of the capsule.
*<code><nowiki>{{BS65009}}</nowiki></code> - Shows bus stop and nearby ammenities columns.
*<code><nowiki>{{BS65009|landmark=}}</nowiki></code> - Shows bus stop only
*<code><nowiki>{{BS65009|swt={{BS/SWT|xxx}}}}</nowiki></code> - Shows bus stop, swt and nearby ammenities columns. The template 'SWT' has no change, just append "BS/" to its prefix will do.


As for the layout details, I foresee the development of the station layout would take 10 mins per station, because we just need to mark out the correct carriage for lift, interchange exits and so on.
Regarding Alternate Travel Option, I am thinking of consodilate and merge into a single sector page, i.e. 1 page for Pasir Ris to Tanah Merah (sector as train normally turnaround at Tanah Merah if breakdown between this sector), showing a spider network on traveling between the four station.


But if we want to include the exits numbers/layout to platform layout/concourse etc, it will need to take 1 hour to do per station, which is still doable.
But I saw your work at Tampines, which is quite good, so can just use yours.


For the simplified locality map guide, if we do it on image graphic, it would map up to be a day per station. But it we do it using wiki html format, it may take weeks.
Regarding the major stops connections, I use NSL for example:
*Jurong East
*Bukit Batok (Between JE to CCK, Bt Batok serves as intermediate stop, with more options heading to CCK/Wdl, and Bt Gomak connections)
* Choa Chu Kang (For Yew Tee connections)
* Woodlands (For Kranji, Marsiling, Admiralty, Sembawang connections)
* Yishun (For Sembawang, Canberra, Khatib connections)
* Ang Mo Kio (For Yio Chu Kang connections)
* Bishan
* Toa Payoh (For Braddell connections)
* Newton
* Orchard (For Somerset/Dhoby Ghaut connections)
* City Hall / Raffles Place
* Marina Bay
* Marina South Pier


Tradeoff between image locality map is speed, cause we can take screenshot, photoshop with entrance/exit, bus stop etc. But in the future, any editing will be tougher cause the same process had to be repeated again. But if we do the wiki html way, we need more time to do, align and correct a single map. But the future edit would be easier and faster.
I omit Sembawang and Yio Chu Kang because there is adequte bus service from other station to those station, and almost all bus service do passes those station first before reaching Sembawang/Yio Chu Kang.


Regards
As for Novena, the way moving forward is via Newton or Marymount/Upper Thomson connections.


=== Re: Progress about Map ===
As for sector, NSL:
Alright, I now making a Bishan Station Map - Making full use of the non-cross platform interchange for feasibility test.
* Jurong East - Choa Chu Kang
* Choa Chu Kang - Woodlands
* Woodlands - Yishun
* Yishun - Ang Mo Kio
* Ang Mo Kio - Newton
* Newton - Marina South Pier


Here the progress. [[File:Bishan-StnMap.png|600px]]
EWL:
* Pasir Ris - Tanah Merah
* Tanah Merah - Paya Lebar
* Paya Lebar - Outram Park
* Outram Park - Buona Vista
* Buona Vista - Jurong East
* Jurong East - Boon Lay
* Boon Lay - Joo Koon
* Joo Koon - Tuas Link
* Tanah Merah - Changi Airport


The size of the map I had estimated it to be within 5 mins walking speed (approx 360m away from the edge of the station)
NEL:
*HarbourFront - Serangoon
*Serangoon - Punggol Coast


==== Updates: Maps ====
After analysing, the activation of FBB is normally between these sectors or consective sectors depending on the scale.
I think you can try prototyping the Station Layout Diagram first, in terms of platform stairs, escalator and the concourse exit.


Yes please upload a list of bus stop reference into sgWiki.
== Re: Images with destinations has to be shown ==


When I finish doing, I may post the SVG code into the respective file-talk page so that any one can copy-paste and try to edit the "svg" to create an image. Not too sure if we should include the map accurate date, so if let's say is 2 years already may need to recreate 1 - to make it more updated.
Hi, I understand what you said to me now. Ok, I will be careful when looking for images.


Also maybe we can trial a file-sharing system to see the feasibility of it so we can update the svg easier for the map.
Thanks


Anyway, I done Bishan Base Map, Roads shape are all accurate to the 5 minutes version - which I think is suitable for all stations.
[[User:Alphabetlorefan1|Alphabetlorefan1]] ([[User talk:Alphabetlorefan1|talk]]) 27 February 2025, 23:16


Haven't done the bus stop and exit. When that done should be ready to go.
== Reply ==


'''User reply''': Noted, I will try to find the materials to Station Layout Diagram and do the bus stop reference as well. Bus service frequency list to be considered as well (nearest to 5 mins).
Hi Wekelwrady, sorry for the delay, I am going to work on 10x services now.  


====Updates:====
Thanks
So sorry for the long mia. This few weeks I am busy with my work, and would not be able to create or continue the process. Been swamp up from my work since CNY. :( I will try to finish the Bishan map by this Sunday. :)


Reply: No worries man, I will try to get the promised work done as well despite work commitments.
[[User:Alphabetlorefan1|Alphabetlorefan1]] ([[User talk:Alphabetlorefan1|talk]]) 7 March 2025, 06:54

Latest revision as of 22:04, 10 March 2025

Just discuss below.

User's Stance: Uploading of non-watermarked images[edit]

I would like to answer some questions regarding why I choose to upload other types of images instead of using Land Transport Guru's.

My answer is simple. First of all, images with watermarks in the middle affect the overall aesthetics of the infobox. Secondly, exploring other image options out of the comfort zone is a good thing, and it captures the eyes of internet users in a more pleasant manner, rather than a heavily watermarked image. The images involved in Sgwiki's bus service pages are in Google Images right now as I speak.

Lastly and most importantly, the goal in the manifest is to build a comparative platform.

I hope that more users are able to understand where I am coming from and able to assist in contributing more of your OWN images. It is really appreciated with gratitude.

Clarification![edit]

My words seem to have been put out of context. I think I didn't make it clear what I meant by the watermarked images. What I was referring to was to address allegations that "sgwiki is plagarising LTG", which I think we should take a unique and exclusive step in the editorial direction of sgwiki. Presenting my own images is part of reducing that negative perception that readers initially had on the new bus service page rollout.

But please don't rush!! The content still has to come first, pictures come last!!

Secondly, I would like to point out self-sustainability for sgwiki as a goal, thus these images I uploaded are meant for sgwiki use, and meant to remove any layer of copyright issues that arise (TLDR: just use them directly for bus service pages). Images that are already on model pages are not to be largely untouched as these are not a priority.

User's Stance: Regarding recent Maintenance Work[edit]

I would like to be realistic here. The reasons other transport pages have been successful have always been attributed to regular maintenance. Therefore, for an encyclopedia to be relevant, the MOST IMPORTANT CORE OF CONTENTS MUST BE THERE. I know that I am getting frustrated, but stacking incomplete work on top of incomplete work can stress out people. Checks and corrections are an important investment and can never be excluded. I hope relevant editors can understand why I need to emphasise this.

I am supposed to be helping out at the trains page, but if editors can be more attentive, I hope I can continue my supposed schedule at the trains page.

Re: Alternate Travel Option Wording[edit]

  • NS11: 962 Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long walking distance to Blk 680.

>> The walking distance may be on par with Opp Admiralty Stn bus stop as one need to turn left twice to Admiralty Stn bus stop, turn left again and walk down, cross the overhead bridge and further walk to Opp Admiralty Stn, whereas the walking path to Blk 680 bus stop is straightforward & direct (turn right and walk to road, turn left again to bus stop).

  • NS12: 962->117/M 883/M Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long travelling journey to the station.

>> What do you mean long travelling time? Alternatively how about 965->Darul Mosque->Overhead bridge->169/117/883 to Canberra, will it be faster?

RE: Alternate Travel Options[edit]

Hi,

Thanks for your progress. I had updated the Schematic route for Woodlands station, by including coloured lines at the bottom of the icon for quick reference on the icons group, so that it would be more easier to reference the icon-pairing when viewing 2 images side by side.

I will update the travelling time for TEL4 asap once I timed the whole trip from Woodlands North to Bayshore and analyze first as the current Opening House could not be fully gauge (as it was sector by sector) so actual dwell time may differ.

Thanks and Regards

Re: Disruption dropdown box idea[edit]

Yes, is fine to do it, I not really sure what you meant by main page, perhaps you can trial first for it? The main page is not locked (I believe)

As for the station layout map, I trying to figure out a way to translate 2D diagram to isometric view (Mathematics involved) for better clarity, so once that done I will slowly progressive roll out on most of the NSL and the eastern EWL. Didn't really have the accurate network layout for most station.

Improvements to counting buses by op[edit]

Automatic calculator that monitors the deployment table(?)

Fixing 184 Weekday Last Bus timings[edit]

42119 - 23:39
42089 - 23:40 42071 - 23:37
42149 - 23:41
12099 - 23:43 12091 - 23:34
12089 - 23:28 12081 - 23:34
12079 - 23:45 17111 - 23:32
17229 - 23:45

Re: Travel Time[edit]

I had updated the new travel time to reflect Hume, Punggol Coast and Teck Lee Station.

For the new upgrade template on bus service page, yes is correct. There isn't any much changes to the new templates.

  • Bus Fleet - {{Col|xxx}}
  • Bus Fleet - {{Fleet|fleet=xxx|model=xxx}}
  • Special Departure/SWT - {{Col/1|xxx}} ← This was used because it didn't use the same format due to vertical alignment issue
  • First/Last Bus - {{Bus/FBLB}}
    • wd=/fr=/sa=/su= → stands for no weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns
    • fwd=/ffr=/fsa=/fsu= → first bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
    • lwd=/lfr=/lsa=/lsu= → last bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
    • order : weekdays → saturdays → sundays → fridays

Supernutorcrazy (talk) 08:02, 8 March 2025 (+08)

Re: Template standardisation[edit]

Hi,

I had trial on Template:BS65009 regarding the feedbacks, and special thanks to Shaun for highlighting the problem. You can refer to

For the effect.

Key notes:

  • {{BS65009}} - Shows bus stop and nearby ammenities columns.
  • {{BS65009|landmark=}} - Shows bus stop only
  • {{BS65009|swt={{BS/SWT|xxx}}}} - Shows bus stop, swt and nearby ammenities columns. The template 'SWT' has no change, just append "BS/" to its prefix will do.

Regarding Alternate Travel Option, I am thinking of consodilate and merge into a single sector page, i.e. 1 page for Pasir Ris to Tanah Merah (sector as train normally turnaround at Tanah Merah if breakdown between this sector), showing a spider network on traveling between the four station.

But I saw your work at Tampines, which is quite good, so can just use yours.

Regarding the major stops connections, I use NSL for example:

  • Jurong East
  • Bukit Batok (Between JE to CCK, Bt Batok serves as intermediate stop, with more options heading to CCK/Wdl, and Bt Gomak connections)
  • Choa Chu Kang (For Yew Tee connections)
  • Woodlands (For Kranji, Marsiling, Admiralty, Sembawang connections)
  • Yishun (For Sembawang, Canberra, Khatib connections)
  • Ang Mo Kio (For Yio Chu Kang connections)
  • Bishan
  • Toa Payoh (For Braddell connections)
  • Newton
  • Orchard (For Somerset/Dhoby Ghaut connections)
  • City Hall / Raffles Place
  • Marina Bay
  • Marina South Pier

I omit Sembawang and Yio Chu Kang because there is adequte bus service from other station to those station, and almost all bus service do passes those station first before reaching Sembawang/Yio Chu Kang.

As for Novena, the way moving forward is via Newton or Marymount/Upper Thomson connections.

As for sector, NSL:

  • Jurong East - Choa Chu Kang
  • Choa Chu Kang - Woodlands
  • Woodlands - Yishun
  • Yishun - Ang Mo Kio
  • Ang Mo Kio - Newton
  • Newton - Marina South Pier

EWL:

  • Pasir Ris - Tanah Merah
  • Tanah Merah - Paya Lebar
  • Paya Lebar - Outram Park
  • Outram Park - Buona Vista
  • Buona Vista - Jurong East
  • Jurong East - Boon Lay
  • Boon Lay - Joo Koon
  • Joo Koon - Tuas Link
  • Tanah Merah - Changi Airport

NEL:

  • HarbourFront - Serangoon
  • Serangoon - Punggol Coast

After analysing, the activation of FBB is normally between these sectors or consective sectors depending on the scale.

Re: Images with destinations has to be shown[edit]

Hi, I understand what you said to me now. Ok, I will be careful when looking for images.

Thanks

Alphabetlorefan1 (talk) 27 February 2025, 23:16

Reply[edit]

Hi Wekelwrady, sorry for the delay, I am going to work on 10x services now.

Thanks

Alphabetlorefan1 (talk) 7 March 2025, 06:54

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