Difference between revisions of "User talk:Wekelwrady"

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Just discuss below.
Just discuss below.


===User's Stance: Uploading of non-watermarked images===
I would like to answer some questions regarding why I choose to upload other types of images instead of using Land Transport Guru's.


==CBD to Marsiling, Bus or MRT (Pin for reference, do not remove)==
My answer is simple. First of all, images with watermarks in the middle affect the overall aesthetics of the infobox. Secondly, exploring other image options out of the comfort zone is a good thing, and it captures the eyes of internet users in a more pleasant manner, rather than a heavily watermarked image. The images involved in Sgwiki's bus service pages are in Google Images right now as I speak.  
Hi, after comptempting your reasoning for Marsiling and done some additional research this is what I had observed:
* Travelling time for 190/972 from CBD to Bukit Panjang is approx 40 mins.
* Travelling time for 187/963/966 from Bukit Panjang to Marsiling is approx 25 mins.
* Travelling time for DTL/CCL/TEL from Newton to Woodlands is approx 40 mins.
* Travelling time for 187/856/925/925M/960/961/961M/963/966 from Woodlands to Marsiling is approx 10 mins.
* Travelling time for 972M from Dhoby Ghaut to Newton is approx 10 mins.


Therefore, the conclusion that I could infer is:
Lastly and most importantly, the goal in the manifest is to build a '''comparative''' platform.
* Newton: MRT to Woodlands, transfer by bus is much faster (Time saving of 15 mins).
* Orchard - Dhoby Ghaut: If there is direct bus to Bukit Panjang which heavily uses BKE/PIE, then the travelling time is on par with MRT (currently).
** The travelling time to Newton actually offset the time saving of 15 mins in the first case.


Some remarks that I noticed:
I hope that more users are able to understand where I am coming from and able to assist in contributing more of your '''OWN''' images. It is really appreciated with gratitude.
* 960 to Bukit Panjang MRT is much slower than DTL, as it winds in Bukit Panjang (From BKE, go to Pending, Petir then Bukit Panjang, following the LRT tracks), where the most direct route is taken by 187, which deviate from the LRT tracks.


===Add on:===
===Clarification!===
Nowadays, bus crawls on expressway. For example, in the past, I can take 858 from Khatib and reach Changi T3 within 30 mins, but nowadays its usually 45 mins, despite no traffic. I also remember there once time I regret taking 960e from Rochor to Woodlands as it took approx 1 hour (thanks to bus crawling on highway to keep to schedule). Usually, when I took 187/963/966 from Blk 270 to Woodlands, it took about 30-35 mins. So if work out to be 20-25 mins to Marsiling. I believed the speed reduction is due to the BCM on-time tracking bah. Occasionally, I manage to take trip which had what you mention the time period (driver's factor play a role). Sadly, I missed those day where buses literally speed down the expressway...
My words seem to have been put out of context. I think I didn't make it clear what I meant by the watermarked images. What I was referring to was to address allegations that "sgwiki is plagarising LTG", which I think we should take a unique and exclusive step in the editorial direction of sgwiki. Presenting my own images is part of reducing that negative perception that readers initially had on the new bus service page rollout.


Reply: Yes, really a pity......
But please don't rush!! The content still has to come first, pictures come last!!


===TEL3/Diversions affecting alternative travel methods===
Secondly, I would like to point out self-sustainability for sgwiki as a goal, thus these images I uploaded are meant for sgwiki use, and meant to remove any layer of copyright issues that arise '''(TLDR: just use them directly for bus service pages)'''. Images that are already on model pages are not to be largely untouched as these are not a priority.
 
===User's Stance: Regarding recent Maintenance Work===
 
I would like to be realistic here. The reasons other transport pages have been successful have always been attributed to regular maintenance. Therefore, for an encyclopedia to be relevant, the '''MOST IMPORTANT CORE OF CONTENTS MUST BE THERE'''. I know that I am getting frustrated, but stacking incomplete work on top of incomplete work can stress out people. Checks and corrections are an important investment and can never be excluded. I hope relevant editors can understand why I need to emphasise this.
 
I am supposed to be helping out at the trains page, but if editors can be more attentive, I hope I can continue my supposed schedule at the trains page.
 
==Re: Alternate Travel Option Wording==
* NS11: 962 Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long walking distance to Blk 680.
 
>> The walking distance may be on par with Opp Admiralty Stn bus stop as one need to turn left twice to Admiralty Stn bus stop, turn left again and walk down, cross the overhead bridge and further walk to Opp Admiralty Stn, whereas the walking path to Blk 680 bus stop is straightforward & direct (turn right and walk to road, turn left again to bus stop).
 
* NS12: 962->117/M 883/M Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long travelling journey to the station.
 
>> What do you mean long travelling time? Alternatively how about 965->Darul Mosque->Overhead bridge->169/117/883 to Canberra, will it be faster?
 
== RE: Alternate Travel Options==
Hi,
Hi,


Yes, stations like Bayfront, Orchard etc keep on having road diversion, especially on large scale, but I feel that this can be made on the sidenote first. It seems that past breakdowns and disruptions don't really occur (or like to occur) when major events happen (never heard of 1 incident before). But as Morphy's Law applies, it may happen sooner also. Also notice there a trend in breakdown, with weekdays having the most occurence, and once in a blue moon is Saturday, Sunday and Public Holidays.
Thanks for your progress. I had updated the Schematic route for Woodlands station, by including coloured lines at the bottom of the icon for quick reference on the icons group, so that it would be more easier to reference the icon-pairing when viewing 2 images side by side.
 
I will update the travelling time for TEL4 asap once I timed the whole trip from Woodlands North to Bayshore and analyze first as the current Opening House could not be fully gauge (as it was sector by sector) so actual dwell time may differ.
 
Thanks and Regards
 
== Re: Disruption dropdown box idea ==
Yes, is fine to do it, I not really sure what you meant by main page, perhaps you can trial first for it? The main page is not locked (I believe)


As for TEL3, you may feel free to include in first. I am in the midst of analysing the bus bridging stops and the distance between stations. In my opinion, the breakdown could be relatively simple.
As for the station layout map, I trying to figure out a way to translate 2D diagram to isometric view (Mathematics involved) for better clarity, so once that done I will slowly progressive roll out on most of the NSL and the eastern EWL. Didn't really have the accurate network layout for most station.


* The breakdown will follow like the rest of the line
===Improvements to counting buses by op===
* TE1 to TE10 = 1 section
Automatic calculator that monitors the deployment table(?)
* TE11 to TE20 = 1 section
* TE21 to TE22 = 1 section
** As of now we keep TEL1+TEL2 && TEL3 as 2 sections because TE10 and TE21 not in operation. So TE22 alone not justify for 1 new section I feel.


Noted and thanks!
== Fixing 184 Weekday Last Bus timings ==


== Travel Time (East to West) ==
42119 - 23:39<br>
42089 - 23:40   42071 - 23:37<br>
42149 - 23:41<br>
12099 - 23:43      12091 - 23:34<br>
12089 - 23:28   12081 - 23:34<br>
12079 - 23:45   17111 - 23:32<br>
17229 - 23:45<br>
 
== Re: Travel Time==
I had updated the new travel time to reflect Hume, Punggol Coast and Teck Lee Station.
 
For the new upgrade template on bus service page, yes is correct. There isn't any much changes to the new templates.
*Bus Fleet - <code><nowiki>{{Col|xxx}}</nowiki></code>
*Bus Fleet - <code><nowiki>{{Fleet|fleet=xxx|model=xxx}}</nowiki></code>
*Special Departure/SWT - <code><nowiki>{{Col/1|xxx}}</nowiki></code> ← This was used because it didn't use the same format due to vertical alignment issue
*First/Last Bus - <code><nowiki>{{Bus/FBLB}}</nowiki></code>
**<code><nowiki>wd=/fr=/sa=/su=</nowiki></code> → stands for no weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns
**<code><nowiki>fwd=/ffr=/fsa=/fsu=</nowiki></code> → first bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
**<code><nowiki>lwd=/lfr=/lsa=/lsu=</nowiki></code> → last bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
**order : weekdays →  saturdays → sundays → fridays
 
[[User:Supernutorcrazy|Supernutorcrazy]] ([[User talk:Supernutorcrazy|talk]]) 08:02, 8 March 2025 (+08)
 
==Re: Template standardisation==
Hi,
Hi,


For Pasir Ris to Jurong East (in the event of EWL down), do you think the following route would be much faster than going to Bus -> Kaki Bukit -> Buona Vista -> Bus?
I had trial on [[Template:BS65009]] regarding the feedbacks, and special thanks to Shaun for highlighting the problem. You can refer to
*3/88/109 to TPE (Bef Punggol Road) <-- This 1 roughly 20 mins I feel.
 
*858/969 from TPE (Bef Punggol Road) to Khatib MRT <-- This 1 roughly 20 mins
*[[Punggol station]]
*NSL from Khatib all the way to Jurong East <-- This 1 just 40 mins.
*[[Punggol LRT Bridging Service]]
*[[Bus Service 34]]
*[[Bus Service 384]]
 
For the effect.
 
Key notes:
*<code><nowiki>{{BS65009}}</nowiki></code> - Shows bus stop and nearby ammenities columns.
*<code><nowiki>{{BS65009|landmark=}}</nowiki></code> - Shows bus stop only
*<code><nowiki>{{BS65009|swt={{BS/SWT|xxx}}}}</nowiki></code> - Shows bus stop, swt and nearby ammenities columns. The template 'SWT' has no change, just append "BS/" to its prefix will do.
 
Regarding Alternate Travel Option, I am thinking of consodilate and merge into a single sector page, i.e. 1 page for Pasir Ris to Tanah Merah (sector as train normally turnaround at Tanah Merah if breakdown between this sector), showing a spider network on traveling between the four station.
 
But I saw your work at Tampines, which is quite good, so can just use yours.
 
Regarding the major stops connections, I use NSL for example:
*Jurong East
*Bukit Batok (Between JE to CCK, Bt Batok serves as intermediate stop, with more options heading to CCK/Wdl, and Bt Gomak connections)
* Choa Chu Kang (For Yew Tee connections)
* Woodlands (For Kranji, Marsiling, Admiralty, Sembawang connections)
* Yishun (For Sembawang, Canberra, Khatib connections)
* Ang Mo Kio (For Yio Chu Kang connections)
* Bishan
* Toa Payoh (For Braddell connections)
* Newton
* Orchard (For Somerset/Dhoby Ghaut connections)
* City Hall / Raffles Place
* Marina Bay
* Marina South Pier
 
I omit Sembawang and Yio Chu Kang because there is adequte bus service from other station to those station, and almost all bus service do passes those station first before reaching Sembawang/Yio Chu Kang.
 
As for Novena, the way moving forward is via Newton or Marymount/Upper Thomson connections.
 
As for sector, NSL:
* Jurong East - Choa Chu Kang
* Choa Chu Kang - Woodlands
* Woodlands - Yishun
* Yishun - Ang Mo Kio
* Ang Mo Kio - Newton
* Newton - Marina South Pier
 
EWL:
* Pasir Ris - Tanah Merah
* Tanah Merah - Paya Lebar
* Paya Lebar - Outram Park
* Outram Park - Buona Vista
* Buona Vista - Jurong East
* Jurong East - Boon Lay
* Boon Lay - Joo Koon
* Joo Koon - Tuas Link
* Tanah Merah - Changi Airport


Thanks & Regards
NEL:
*HarbourFront - Serangoon
*Serangoon - Punggol Coast


===RE: 81===
After analysing, the activation of FBB is normally between these sectors or consective sectors depending on the scale.
According to Transitlink: Svc 81 from Pasir Ris to Kovan is around 40 mins, from my rail experience, Kovan to Buona Vista is around 35 mins (25 mins CCL, 5 mins transfer, 5 mins NEL). Based on this 2 the time taken should already far exceed the long north detour path. I think this was partial cause we make full use of the TPE "Express" trunk routes. Do correct me wrong if the bus trip timing is wrong. Cause I don't really take those services.


On the side note, should we include the estimated travel time so it would be easier to benchmark in the future?
== Re: Images with destinations has to be shown ==


===Re: Exits ===
Hi, I understand what you said to me now. Ok, I will be careful when looking for images.
Good idea. I did for the [[Alternative Travel Method/Pasir Ris]] for between Expo & Changi Airport. See if it looks goods?


For travel time, let round it to the nearer 5 mins, cause some route may deviate from each other between 1-2 mins?, so a 5 mins deviation should be ok. Then if other alternative come we can help to benchmark those if it offers quick alternative. Maybe we need to include disclaimer that is an estimate and it may varies.
Thanks


Secondly, for rail transfer between lines is usually 5 mins, even for Jurong East, City Hall and Raffles Place thanks to the mismatch of trains arriving/departing. For Bus I feel a waiting time of 10 mins should be average? so we can include those in disclaimer.
[[User:Alphabetlorefan1|Alphabetlorefan1]] ([[User talk:Alphabetlorefan1|talk]]) 27 February 2025, 23:16


I now developing the new station layout format for more information and clarity, feel more can be included. Maybe escalator and lift according to the carriage diagram like those in Japan/Korea? Let me know your take.
== Reply ==


===Re: MRT Transfer Time===
Hi Wekelwrady, sorry for the delay, I am going to work on 10x services now.  
I had transfer quite a lots of time between the various line at Jurong East, Caldecott, Bishan, Paya Lebar, Buona Vista, City Hall/Raffles Place, Dhoby Ghaut, Newton during peak hours/off-peaks and 5 minutes transfer time are included in the walking/waiting time in average.


Trains between different lines are typically sync according to walking time. So after a walk transfer, 1 would usually do not need to wait, or at most 2 minutes between transfer of lines. This is exception to NS-EW transfer. The NS-EW transfer at Jurong East/City Hall/Raffles Place are by luck and direction (most of the time are just missed a train or 1 minutes wait), but usually trains arrived at 5 minutes, with peak hours may need to miss a train at times (so equal to 5 minutes) due to overcrowding.
Thanks


For EW-CG transfer at Tanah Merah, 5 minutes are enough as trains arrive at every 8 minutes, stop at platform for 3 minutes which covered most cases. So rail transfer is roughly 5 minutes. I not too sure about buses, but most of the time between transferring of bus can be done in 10 minutes after factoring in waiting time, rarely exceeding 10 minutes in both peaks and off-peak based on my experience.
[[User:Alphabetlorefan1|Alphabetlorefan1]] ([[User talk:Alphabetlorefan1|talk]]) 7 March 2025, 06:54

Latest revision as of 22:04, 10 March 2025

Just discuss below.

User's Stance: Uploading of non-watermarked images[edit]

I would like to answer some questions regarding why I choose to upload other types of images instead of using Land Transport Guru's.

My answer is simple. First of all, images with watermarks in the middle affect the overall aesthetics of the infobox. Secondly, exploring other image options out of the comfort zone is a good thing, and it captures the eyes of internet users in a more pleasant manner, rather than a heavily watermarked image. The images involved in Sgwiki's bus service pages are in Google Images right now as I speak.

Lastly and most importantly, the goal in the manifest is to build a comparative platform.

I hope that more users are able to understand where I am coming from and able to assist in contributing more of your OWN images. It is really appreciated with gratitude.

Clarification![edit]

My words seem to have been put out of context. I think I didn't make it clear what I meant by the watermarked images. What I was referring to was to address allegations that "sgwiki is plagarising LTG", which I think we should take a unique and exclusive step in the editorial direction of sgwiki. Presenting my own images is part of reducing that negative perception that readers initially had on the new bus service page rollout.

But please don't rush!! The content still has to come first, pictures come last!!

Secondly, I would like to point out self-sustainability for sgwiki as a goal, thus these images I uploaded are meant for sgwiki use, and meant to remove any layer of copyright issues that arise (TLDR: just use them directly for bus service pages). Images that are already on model pages are not to be largely untouched as these are not a priority.

User's Stance: Regarding recent Maintenance Work[edit]

I would like to be realistic here. The reasons other transport pages have been successful have always been attributed to regular maintenance. Therefore, for an encyclopedia to be relevant, the MOST IMPORTANT CORE OF CONTENTS MUST BE THERE. I know that I am getting frustrated, but stacking incomplete work on top of incomplete work can stress out people. Checks and corrections are an important investment and can never be excluded. I hope relevant editors can understand why I need to emphasise this.

I am supposed to be helping out at the trains page, but if editors can be more attentive, I hope I can continue my supposed schedule at the trains page.

Re: Alternate Travel Option Wording[edit]

  • NS11: 962 Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long walking distance to Blk 680.

>> The walking distance may be on par with Opp Admiralty Stn bus stop as one need to turn left twice to Admiralty Stn bus stop, turn left again and walk down, cross the overhead bridge and further walk to Opp Admiralty Stn, whereas the walking path to Blk 680 bus stop is straightforward & direct (turn right and walk to road, turn left again to bus stop).

  • NS12: 962->117/M 883/M Remarks: You can take the NSLFBB due to the long travelling journey to the station.

>> What do you mean long travelling time? Alternatively how about 965->Darul Mosque->Overhead bridge->169/117/883 to Canberra, will it be faster?

RE: Alternate Travel Options[edit]

Hi,

Thanks for your progress. I had updated the Schematic route for Woodlands station, by including coloured lines at the bottom of the icon for quick reference on the icons group, so that it would be more easier to reference the icon-pairing when viewing 2 images side by side.

I will update the travelling time for TEL4 asap once I timed the whole trip from Woodlands North to Bayshore and analyze first as the current Opening House could not be fully gauge (as it was sector by sector) so actual dwell time may differ.

Thanks and Regards

Re: Disruption dropdown box idea[edit]

Yes, is fine to do it, I not really sure what you meant by main page, perhaps you can trial first for it? The main page is not locked (I believe)

As for the station layout map, I trying to figure out a way to translate 2D diagram to isometric view (Mathematics involved) for better clarity, so once that done I will slowly progressive roll out on most of the NSL and the eastern EWL. Didn't really have the accurate network layout for most station.

Improvements to counting buses by op[edit]

Automatic calculator that monitors the deployment table(?)

Fixing 184 Weekday Last Bus timings[edit]

42119 - 23:39
42089 - 23:40 42071 - 23:37
42149 - 23:41
12099 - 23:43 12091 - 23:34
12089 - 23:28 12081 - 23:34
12079 - 23:45 17111 - 23:32
17229 - 23:45

Re: Travel Time[edit]

I had updated the new travel time to reflect Hume, Punggol Coast and Teck Lee Station.

For the new upgrade template on bus service page, yes is correct. There isn't any much changes to the new templates.

  • Bus Fleet - {{Col|xxx}}
  • Bus Fleet - {{Fleet|fleet=xxx|model=xxx}}
  • Special Departure/SWT - {{Col/1|xxx}} ← This was used because it didn't use the same format due to vertical alignment issue
  • First/Last Bus - {{Bus/FBLB}}
    • wd=/fr=/sa=/su= → stands for no weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns
    • fwd=/ffr=/fsa=/fsu= → first bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
    • lwd=/lfr=/lsa=/lsu= → last bus column for weekday/friday/saturday/sunday columns (used for skipping)
    • order : weekdays → saturdays → sundays → fridays

Supernutorcrazy (talk) 08:02, 8 March 2025 (+08)

Re: Template standardisation[edit]

Hi,

I had trial on Template:BS65009 regarding the feedbacks, and special thanks to Shaun for highlighting the problem. You can refer to

For the effect.

Key notes:

  • {{BS65009}} - Shows bus stop and nearby ammenities columns.
  • {{BS65009|landmark=}} - Shows bus stop only
  • {{BS65009|swt={{BS/SWT|xxx}}}} - Shows bus stop, swt and nearby ammenities columns. The template 'SWT' has no change, just append "BS/" to its prefix will do.

Regarding Alternate Travel Option, I am thinking of consodilate and merge into a single sector page, i.e. 1 page for Pasir Ris to Tanah Merah (sector as train normally turnaround at Tanah Merah if breakdown between this sector), showing a spider network on traveling between the four station.

But I saw your work at Tampines, which is quite good, so can just use yours.

Regarding the major stops connections, I use NSL for example:

  • Jurong East
  • Bukit Batok (Between JE to CCK, Bt Batok serves as intermediate stop, with more options heading to CCK/Wdl, and Bt Gomak connections)
  • Choa Chu Kang (For Yew Tee connections)
  • Woodlands (For Kranji, Marsiling, Admiralty, Sembawang connections)
  • Yishun (For Sembawang, Canberra, Khatib connections)
  • Ang Mo Kio (For Yio Chu Kang connections)
  • Bishan
  • Toa Payoh (For Braddell connections)
  • Newton
  • Orchard (For Somerset/Dhoby Ghaut connections)
  • City Hall / Raffles Place
  • Marina Bay
  • Marina South Pier

I omit Sembawang and Yio Chu Kang because there is adequte bus service from other station to those station, and almost all bus service do passes those station first before reaching Sembawang/Yio Chu Kang.

As for Novena, the way moving forward is via Newton or Marymount/Upper Thomson connections.

As for sector, NSL:

  • Jurong East - Choa Chu Kang
  • Choa Chu Kang - Woodlands
  • Woodlands - Yishun
  • Yishun - Ang Mo Kio
  • Ang Mo Kio - Newton
  • Newton - Marina South Pier

EWL:

  • Pasir Ris - Tanah Merah
  • Tanah Merah - Paya Lebar
  • Paya Lebar - Outram Park
  • Outram Park - Buona Vista
  • Buona Vista - Jurong East
  • Jurong East - Boon Lay
  • Boon Lay - Joo Koon
  • Joo Koon - Tuas Link
  • Tanah Merah - Changi Airport

NEL:

  • HarbourFront - Serangoon
  • Serangoon - Punggol Coast

After analysing, the activation of FBB is normally between these sectors or consective sectors depending on the scale.

Re: Images with destinations has to be shown[edit]

Hi, I understand what you said to me now. Ok, I will be careful when looking for images.

Thanks

Alphabetlorefan1 (talk) 27 February 2025, 23:16

Reply[edit]

Hi Wekelwrady, sorry for the delay, I am going to work on 10x services now.

Thanks

Alphabetlorefan1 (talk) 7 March 2025, 06:54